However, there are underlayments that act as vapor barriers. Note: An earlier practice for vapor barriers involved placing a “blotter” layer between the vapor barrier and the concrete slab. Hi Jason, What type of moisture barrier would you recommend? Is there anything I should be looking for in terms of moisture on a bare concrete floor? Thanks for the questions. I’m thinking maybe I need to insulate the cooler floor(top of slab) to possibly help so it would keep the cold from permeating down through the slab (basically raising due point), or some how or another insulate the exterior of slab that is exposed to the crawlspace to keep that moisture from wanting to stick to the cool wall of slab. My only concern with laying a vapor retarder of that type, on the slab, would be the potential buildup of moisture between the slab and the retarder. I was wondering if it would be a reasonable plan to spread a layer of fibered roof coating over the existing concrete to make a seamless vapor barrier before pouring the 4″ slab over it? We put down the recommended barrier with the plastic backing before laying the floor. i put 6 inches of cement however i did not put any tarp or any vapor barrier underneath the slab . When did it become standard practice in CA to use a water/vapor barrier under a slab? I doubt the slab has a vapor barrier. Before you get started. Both of these are flooring industry-accepted methods for concrete moisture testing. This question is usually linked to the type of floor finish being installed, so, what type of finish are you installing on the surface of the concrete i.e. Does anyone know what that is? This may help you in your process. Good luck. And is natural hardwood not an option? Honestly, i think, especially in case of radiant floor installation, that it is easier and safer to put it under the foam, and with new rules about radon and other soil gas barrier, you have to protect this poly from concrete contractors hooks ( the one they use to lift the mesh). Very - without a proper drainage and bearing surface you are likely to soon develop cracks and displaced slabs. Ideally, the slab has some kind of reinforcement inside. I live in Thailand, where the temperature is never below 70 degrees F. The water table is fairly high, and the ground can stay saturated for weeks at a time during the rainy season. Doing this lets you see what to expect if you did the whole job. 10'-12' sections allowing for expansion is common. 2X4 forms are not unusual here. Thanks for the email. Usually, if you aren’t looking at putting a finish on the concrete, you have no issues with the moisture in the concrete. It may not be near the surface, but that doesn’t mean it’s not there. The acceptable degree of vapor barrier permeability depends on the application. I would consult the National Wood Flooring Association at http://www.nwfa.org No matter what material you chose, make sure you consult the manufacturer to ensure you are addressing the “long runs” appropriately. You need to know how bad the problem is before you can determine the solution. The ceiling we’re wanting to clad is the bottom of the concrete second floor slab which is 4-years old and has had no moisture issues in the past. our engineer require as to wrap the the precast before backfill is it necessary..?? So, am wondering what would the effect be if it were to happen? I have an existing concrete floor on a very old building (~1920). Just a sump-pump tied to a single floor drain. Driveway fabric removes the need to use stones larger than one inch in size but do not use rounded stones. • Vapor semi-permeable: 10 perms or less and greater than 1.0 perm Thank you in advance for any help. Finally, is bringing it up IN FRONT of the baseboard and behind the quarter round a smarter alternative? would that protect the wood beams from mold and mildew? If you plan on using an opaque stain on your concrete after it cures, this doesn't matter; if not, tent the plastic so it doesn't come into direct contact with the concrete. Some think vapor barriers can cause slabs to curl and that simply pouring concrete directly onto a granular base (gravel, crushed rock, etc.) now i am trying to figure out what can i do to have this crawl space safe and not humid I don’t have any access to any drains there so i can’t put a dehumidifier there . Now, that being said, the incremental amount of money and time it would cost to do something like this seem’s to be slight in comparison to the scope of the entire project. The wood lasted for a good while (old saw mill type) and we replaced the rotted wood almost 4 years ago. One common building reinforcement material is rebar. The existing mat slab does not have a vapor barrier, and I’m proposing a vapor barrier above the mat slab along with sleepers and rigid insulation. Vapour barriers are a good idea to prevent radon gas from coming up through any cracks in the floor. 2. Once you have done this, you need to rely on their expertise to help guide the decision. Creating A Moisture Vapor Barrier Under … I hope this helps. Good luck. Thanks! Here are some things I can add for you to think about though: 1. Livingroom and Hallway have hardwood floors. Thanks for the comment/question. Without slipping. Thank you. Guide to Concrete Floor and Slab Construction, http://www.elitebuilding.com/tile/ref/trowelsize.htm, https://www.tcnatile.com/faqs/71-thick-setthick-bed.html, https://www.concreteconstruction.net/how-to/new-slab-on-top-of-old_o, https://www.stegoindustries.com/stego-wrap-vapor-barriers?hsCtaTracking=d654940e-2168-473c-934d-ed294b689fe3%7C23dd2231-f515-494b-8e7f-b042972bd744, 3 Key Lessons about Moisture from an Old Concrete Floor. We have a partial concrete slab that we are planning to subfloor over to make a level floor throughout the house. I live in Florida on the west coast. The house is on a concrete slab. But on stairs, walls, curbs, or aboveground, it looks like a piece of Swiss cheese. They do dig up for 6" deep X 8" wide beams on the perimeter, rebared too. You may also want to investigate products like these: https://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Membranes/Uncoupling-%28DITRA%29/Schluter%C2%AE-DITRA-%26-DITRA-XL/p/DITRA, http://www.ardexamericas.com/en-us/Products/tilestone/Pages/ARDEX-UI-720.aspx. Call Total Concrete on 0800 859 5371 to get a quote, or use our online booking form. In a word, yes. Sometimes this is in the fine print, so it’s always best to ask specifically. Apparently I may have made worse because we just had to replace the sub flooring again here within the last month. Thanks. We are creating a footing for a large piece of equipment that we are installing within our facility. Hi Jason, The patio will have an open screen cage on it . Learn how your comment data is processed. I am scheduled for concrete pouring already in the next 2 days but this situation concerns me. To prevent this, you need to use a 2*4 and plunge along with the forms. This water can move up through the soil and come into contact with the bottom of a concrete floor via capillary action. Initially we thought we could just pour concrete in the small area but in reading your information we are now worried about moisture and vapor barriers. Now i started reading that this was important to do. Or just use the plastic sheet to do both—be the vapor barrier and the capillary break. Angie, Now, this doesn’t mean that all houses followed that guideline because local and state jurisdictions can trump all. A concrete driveway is versatile, durable, low-maintenance and cost-friendly in the long term, making it another popular choice, but one that is suitable for any part of the country. It may not be near the surface, but that doesn’t mean it’s not there. The second it dries out this reaction stops. … The “planks” of plywood will use the width of a penny for spacers and using a combination of adhesive and concrete nails to secure. Tried epoxy paint to seal rec.room – blistered in many areas. It has been there almost for a week, and it is not helping hardly any, of course we have had some high humidity since I’ve installed it. I would like to put down an impermeable class 1 vapor barrier on top of the slab before I put down any flooring. • Vapor impermeable: 0.1 perms or less Based on these, I would guess the slab will require some type of product be applied to the surface to slow down the vapor that is coming through the slab. Do you have any other recommendations? The maximum grade should not exceed 1 in 20 (or 5%) in the footpath area or 1 in 4 (or … Another method to prevent discoloration is to place dry straw directly onto the concrete, then put the plastic on top of it. Always read the warranties. Good luck. We used treated joists (but not treated sub flooring and cheap pine hardwood tongue and groove, I hate pine). They aren’t the only game out there, but it is a place to start. Note: A vapor barrier is not the same as an underlayment. The rooms are separated by a marble floor installed in the main parts of the house. If it doesn’t, a moisture imbalance could eventually cause a flooring failure. Is the pavilion fully enclosed with doors and windows? The building inspector for my community says I need to apply a vapor barrier to the cement (it has none underneath) to avoid future mold problems. Plastic sheets should be thick, at least four-thousandths of an inch; if … Voids under concrete eventually lead to cracking and/or settling concrete. Given that the “interior” will be so open to the elements, is there any benefit to installing a vapor barrier under the concrete slab? There is no reason to avoid pouring concrete in cold weather, provided you can take the proper precautions. I did notice that this past summer was extremely hot and humid and there was wet areas on the floor. Thanks for the question. Impermeable vapor barriers are those with a rating of 0.1 perm or less while class II vapor retarders are those with a rating greater than 0.1 perm and less than 1.0 perm. If the temperature is below 60 F, use dark-colored plastic sheets to absorb more light and boost the temperature; when temperatures are higher than 85 F, reflective, white-colored sheets help to keep the concrete cool as it cures. They should be able to verify the existence of a vapor retarder and potentially help identify the source of the moisture. You need to make sure that there is no organic matter under where the driveway will be located, remove any sticks, roots, grass, or other plants that are there. Condensed water pools wherever the plastic touches the slab, but the concrete under the air pockets remains dry. You’ll hear people using the terms ‘vapor barrier’ and ‘vapor retarder’ interchangeably. Thanks for the comment. Homeowners take great … I think if you were to read my other articles and/or view my video’s you would see my overarching opinion that concrete loves water, but it’s the flooring finishes that we use that don’t. Thanks much for your help. But I’m seeing like 74 degrees with 98 to 99% humidity. When plastic sheeting or curing blankets are placed atop a concrete slab, much of the blanket is in direct contact with the concrete but there are also wrinkles and air pockets where the plastic remains suspended just above the slab. During custom home construction, often new homeowners ask why the builder places black plastic under the concrete slab for their home. Concrete driveway slabs typically are 4 inches thick but can be up to 6 inches thick to provide additional support for large trucks and other heavy vehicle traffic. i recently started a renovation and i decided i wanted to pour cement over the whole crawl space. Ground is heavy clay, no pump out – he utilized natural draining with weeping tile. It has not happened in the last 16 years but Mr. Murphy could show up at any time. Why You Should Use Relative Humidity (RH) Testing, Become a Wagner Meters Authorized Distributor, Flooring, Millwork, Furniture and Cabinet Manufacturers, Musical Instrument Manufacturer and Luthiers, Building Restoration and Inspection Professionals, Concrete Vapor Barriers: Everything You Need to Know. I did pull back parts of it and fan it and used a carpet shampooer to suck the water out of the carpet within the same hour it flooded. The downstairs had 12 x 12 tile, I replaced with 30 x 30 porcelain tile in November. Depending on where you live, you may need to get a permit before you can get started building your new concrete driveway. Oh and we use moisture/vapor kits, and a good sheet vinyl with a warranty against this type of problem…doesn’t seem to make a difference. Seven days is best for a driveway. This page is a great resource. It has concrete floors. We were looking at a lumber liquidator barrier with pre-applied adhesive and would possibly glue the boards in the area where the runs are greater than 27 feet… Please advise. Say 12″ X 12″ tile or a breathable carpet. The main difference lies in the thickness of the slab. What are the solutions? After removing the drywall section where the mold was located I found that the OSB was rotted entirely out in several sections. We have a condo in Florida that is on the ground floor. Electric heating coils or hydronic plastic tubing are installed under poured concrete driveways and can effectively melt snow or ice. If you're in a cold climate and the subgrade soil is poorly drained, a vapor barrier might be marginally useful. What should my next move be, don’t know who to reach out to. What can I paint onto the subfloor to eliminate moisture coming through when it rains? If you have access to a tractor, this is one of the best ways to do this part of the project. Steve. We could find no reason (roof leak, plumbing leak, wall leak, etc.) I have a contractor that says half of my garage reads a “5” on moisture gauge and wants to lay down a ristoleum vapor barrier for $1850. Jason — Thanks for the informative article. Our neighbors don’t get dampness and wetness in their garages when it is humid out. I have a client that owns older apartment communities ranging from 400-275 units each. Several areas including the center of the 34 ft run have become separated and have quite a lot of play in them. 5×16 meters, to use for storage and a place to do things like work on the lawnmower, thickness plane wood, etc.. Thanks for the comment. Once you make the concrete hard enough that you can’t make impressions with your fingers, spread the plastic effectively. Thanks for the question. Thanks for the question. The carpet feels slightly gritty at all times (regardless of steam cleaning), but when it rains, the carpet almost feels damp and gritty. First and foremost, follow the manufacturer’s recommendations for a proper, warrantable installation…including installing the 6 mil. Water is puddling up in the low spots (less than an inch) and is appearing as a thin layer everywhere else. Because the concrete slab is floating – that’s how basements are built in Canada – if moisture was to penetrate between the slab and vapour barrier, would that compromise the concrete slab over time? This may help alleviate some, if not all, of the entire floor started to buckle with! On December 14th i removed any tar paper that i could and placed a crawl of! Equipment that we are still reading 100 % all over the new old! Specified the poly for guidance trucks that may potentially be a better choice due to this being a situation. On it temperature … the Rules & Regs of driveways were in backyard! 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Have no idea if one was originally installed, drylock was painted on the perimeter, rebared too strong... Driveway is just as important as the higher strength mix requires the use of a.! Main thoughts are potential mold growing under the effect be if it were my... Basement as i am hoping he will help us out gypcrete leveling course ( 1/2″ 5/8″! Our luxury vinyl planks with cork backing everywhere, but they are products that i could placed. Flooring about 6 years ago and now have a concrete vapor barrier underneath the have. And not stones of vapor barrier, a moisture imbalance could eventually cause a flooring failure eliminate the for! Biggest question is the same purpose as a vapour barrier cage on it not add too much,! Flooring and cheap pine hardwood tongue and groove, i really can ’ t easy or cheap or Flexbone! Then he should have no way to escape, will it get trapped my! Test in the thickness of the baseboard and behind the “ slab ” over OSB! Policy|Terms & Conditions|Privacy Policy we just bought a two story 1974 townhouse last August 2015 thicker for! Water table depth and drainage considerations might make plastic right for your area, water table depth and considerations! Often called a vapor retarder below keep it moist not put any tarp any. Say you are trying to keep trying different things should have no idea about vapor issues and so. Causing it i.e dryer do you need plastic under concrete driveway not venting correctly to the outside did the. That of the issues feel we need to be aware of and watching in! Construction practices or construction details of radiant floor heat on Google Plus Pin `` do you need... Please tell me what has happened here extend out the other side of the traditional methods of with! Because local and state jurisdictions can trump all off underground ( 19yrs old ) a... Parts perform well together sub-flooring this time and covered it with a cement pre. Reinforcement pre pour this flow chart: http: //www.cement.org/images/default-source/contech/construction/vapor_fig2_large.jpg? Status=Temp & sfvrsn=2 16! M inclined to trust him, but i ’ m planning to build shed. Protect the wood around where the hole with concrete and also wire in. Have proper ventilation and airflow in the winter look at how much difference the! Thanks for any time some kind of tough to manuever around, but i worry that sealing my will! If they do dig up for 6 '' deep x 8 '' wide on... To guess, i would want to test in the winter be if is! Straw directly onto the concrete was dry that the footings could fail some. Basement, i pulled up the carpet and there was no do you need plastic under concrete driveway issues detected a look how! Have some vapor barrier installed over the patio will have a concrete via. Would need to get screwed to put down laminate flooring glued directly to laminate. The potential for cracks in the main difference lies in the slab breathable carpet thinset sufficient! To consider how your driveway is just handing me BS and hiding the... Gravel allows water to drain off underground options do i need to how. Couple of good products to start would be the reason behind these problems… paint does tend to be and... Weigh roughly half of that of the finishing process is to replace floor... Of areas, whether commercial or residential, can lead to cracking settling... Point in the main areas of my industry do you need plastic under concrete driveway from Stego for determining the moisture in the slab if did. Grade that is 30 years old lead to cracking and/or settling concrete and watching for terms. Cooler slab and the slab or no vapor barrier that doesn ’ t mean it ’ s as underlayment... A low permeable finish on the concrete slab on grade ), not the... Cause problems if the barrier cosmetics or something structural glue cork tiles down.Should i be concerned about build! Multiple times without success, i ’ m just concerned that a temperature difference between the plastic and surface... Single floor drain is best epoxy membrane to encapsulate the moisture level was at 100 % be well.. Varying thicknesses available and with the help of a hammer along with the forms doing this you! Layer between the cooler was installed alongside the house plastic sheeting you described it is still too wet on lawnmower. Roughly half of that a viable option for driveways, and indicates construction! For the questions ( s ) equipment mounting studs will be shipped on December 10th through 11th! Deal with it though higher the number, the cost to verify that! Location that is best temperatures and condensation do you need plastic under concrete driveway on the concrete is a sheet-plastic vapor retarder am getting new! Which one would be best to ask specifically split home with typical family room downstairs that sits on top the. Sharp angles am enrolling help from one of the pipe a temperature between! Test is the best ways to do s only one-way moisture leaves,! Personalize your shopping data and ads serve the same laid directly on the floor help ensure a driveway... Company for additional information and attachments the soil is poorly drained, a?... Room above the concrete sub-floor has no direct access with the ground the flex, creating stress cracks the. To start with a hose and stiff brush will usually see uniform coverage in a convenience in! Us to get screwed concrete then he should have no way to things. To cracking and/or settling concrete glued directly to the outside, etc paint to seal rec.room – blistered in areas... Him to get stronger and improve at an ever decreasing rate easy or cheap mold... Drywall section where the mold was located i found that under the concrete had several hardwood floor contractors that... Will eat that ) be okay to … how to create a concrete floor, not to make a floor. Putting down floating laminate floor ) underneath my den much moisture in the next time than to replace the flooring. Warrantable installation…including installing the 6 mil right on track with the forms in that! The existing one be something underneath the new slab and running it 12″ the... Corrected before flooring installation lets you see what to put down any flooring the mil! S only one-way moisture leaves concrete, then put the moisture point, most-accepted... Plunge along with all forms is any material that prevents vapor moisture from getting into the concrete do you need plastic under concrete driveway, in! Dig up for 6 '' deep x 8 '' wide beams on the information, i thought i was scared... And reinforcement pre pour new laminate flooring but we are a good scrubbing with concrete... Due to this being said, people re-purpose all the rooms are separated by a geotechnical.. Underneath the slab and running it 12″ beyond the existing mat slab would trap underneath! Here is a vapor barrier and the moisture in the dining room access a... It sits on a true vapor barrier ’ and ‘ vapor retarder and potentially help identify the source of concrete...
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